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Weird Hover tank wip by flaketom Weird Hover tank wip by flaketom
Just a really fast concept of an ww2 hover tank which came tp my mind today. Way to go till its done. Just wanted to nail down the rough concept.

Comments and critique appreciated, as always!

And especially: What do you think Rob?
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Oct 6, 2012
Enclosed blades produce less lift. Size matters too.

I'm assuming you're going to add wings for stability in forward flight?
If not, the tail section might not be needed.

Nice work :w00t:
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:iconrob-cavanna:
Rob-Cavanna Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
Very cool idea! Been marinating on it over the weekend... finally know how to tweak it. Gonna play with it and send you some images soon.
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
Thanks and I saw the results of the tweaking. Awesome!
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:iconxxvectorzeroxx:
xxVectorZeroxx Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012
too flimsy looking, propeller wise. (wikipedia russian flying tank btw. lol) i like the main carriage though, it feels.... tanky in a WW1 or WW2 kinda way. the propellers arnt really time effective though, even if we ignore lift to weight ratios. they didnt have any helicopters in WWII did they? :p i cant recall....
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
It's a WW2 era design, they had some helicopter designs, though none really made a big breakthrough. THe rotors are a tad flimsy, I agree on that one. what do you mean with time effective?
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:iconxxvectorzeroxx:
xxVectorZeroxx Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2012
as in there wasnt any equivalent helicopter designs in WWII to poach concept from, unlike your aircrafts body, which is era designed as a tankish concept
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2012
Ahh. Thanks!
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I don't know, it doesnt look too flimsy propeller wise. Its hard to say because nobody has done a duoprop helo. Moeller did a few working models with six single props for his "george jetson" commuter and it isn't that different in size... Blades to OA size. A duo prop would give better efficiency of lift, but exactly how much... ?!?

Yes, though they were rudimentary at best. They were termed gyros back then. They either looked like an ultralight helicopter or like a plane with a helicopter blade on top. Sikorsky made a design that developed the helicopter into what it is today, but the Germans had the most development in helicopters. [link]
This [link] had two helos propellers on either wing and is closest to the above design

Most helicopters used back then were for recon if they were used at all during the war
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, the half rings that hold the shroud for the fan looks a little blunted. I think they should be more rounded.
As far as the fan blades, the more blades there are, the stronger the effort to push (fewer means the fan propels the vehicle faster or quicker). That said, it seems you are going with a 12 blade duo-prop (meaning 24 counter-rotating blades). Duo-props (used for the last 20+ years in the marine industry) are another method of attaining strength to push (against air, water, meat-byproduct, whatever). I think it looks a little too busy. I think you could probably attain a similar look with few blades. Also, ...how is the propeller suspended in the ring???

I think the fuselage and tail section are a spot on match for a WWII vehicle, even the color is almost a spot on match for color schemes of the day, though I imagine this was just a temporary coloring for a WIP
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
Hey there and thanks for the huge feedback!
Fewer blades sound good and the I just plainly forgot to add the suspension of them propellers...Was all made in a rush, so thanks for reminding. Now I need to chew through the rest of the comments! Thanks again!
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, if you look at some of my comments here, you'll see that I had a similar work. I also posted a link to a reference picture that inspired my first work. In the end, I decided to go in a different tangent way. :shrug:

Not saying you should as well, I just felt that initial way wasn't better.
After all, it is just doing a model and nobody ever said it has to be logical nor functional. I just like a very logical stance in mine and that is my stance for giving criticisms. Just say your model uses an experimental technology that was never revealed at the end of WWII and that will end all discussion. ;)
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2012
Yeah, saw your works.
A logical and plausible stance is very important, don't wanna go to far into the super tech direction, but for a absolutely real technical solution my skills are just missing. Thanks again for all the input. It sure helps a lot to carve the concpte out.
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
"don't wanna go to far into the super tech direction"
Just saw your workbot and think you might want to reconsider the validity of this statement again... :XD:
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2012
Well... :P
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yup, well, ask any 6 or 8 year old, and they will tear apart any concept with what they have "seen" work (via hollywood "magic").

Though hardly a 6-8 year old, I guess I'm not that much different. :XD:
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 28, 2012
Haha :D
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:iconlastzonetrooper:
LastZoneTrooper Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
it looks like the propeller is locked within the housing itself. for example, the propeller set could have a ring piece locking the propeller wings in place around the center (like spokes on a wheel.). this would also cover a few aspects of how the "engine" could attain the speed necessary for lift. the "ring" that support's the propeller wings could have an outer lining, like a, a type of Gear. a hollowed out gear piece. this would allow-and i am just tossing this out here-another belt/gear system inside the strut that holds the housing to the craft, to attach to the gear/propeller set inside the housing to accelerate to speeds unheard of from the standard belt-to-propeller method. if your not understanding how i picture the inside of the housing that holds it altogether, i am pretty sure most engineers would.you see, a rubber-mixture lining the belt can twist almost to 90 degrees opposite that of its straighter set. meaning it can fit through the points that the propeller housing is "hinged" to. furthermore, the propeller housing's would work as a type of gyro in themselves. Greater weight on the bottom to keep the foremost housings facing in the same direction(down) and lighter material for the rear-most housings so they can be used to push or slow the craft while in hovering. a craft of this type was and still is highly possible. and a lot of these parts can me scrounged from most junkyards. if given the chance, i might be able to draw out some idea drawing on how the housing-engine interior would be made for it to work.


(if you do not understand what i am saying, don't try to. if you need a more in-depth explanation, msg me.)
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
As it could be helpful to the modeler, I'd like top keep it here if it's all the same to you...

Okay, let's use your spoked wheel analogy. What I was saying is: It doesn't look like there is a frame to hold the spokes and gears in place. There is a frame to hold the ring in place, okay, but the spokes are free-floating inside the ring without something to hold it in place. I did something kind of similar here [link] with this [link] as an early concept piece (which was inspired by this [link] ).

I understand the concept of a a hollowed out tube with a drive gear inside spinning the propeller, I'm just saying I don't see it, I see the propeller, the ring (or shroud) but nothing to hold the the propeller in place.
...unless it is the same color as the propellers???
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:iconlastzonetrooper:
LastZoneTrooper Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
ok what i gave was a bad example, so think of it this way. imagine you have a bike wheel ok and the spokes are the propeller blades. the wheel itself on the outside where the tire would be is instead fitted with an outer lining like that of a gear. now you know how a bicycle is given forward momentum, by way of a chain? well what if that chain is suspended through that half-ring that holds the propeller outer-housing in place? it is fitted inside and through the 2 points that connect the half-ring to the propeller housing interior. the chain only rests on half of the gear structure inside of the housing itself and the rest i am pretty sure you can see. the only problem would be keeping the gear structure inside the propeller housing from bouncing around or grinding out the interior. if that problem can be solved, the rest is up to whoever builds the craft. the points where the inner-housing is suspended by the outer-housing has a space large enough inside for the belt-chain to fit through. now that that part is covered, another system similar to the link-up in the propeller-housing structure allows propulsion to take place. another gear-to-belt-chain system would work from the engine to the outer-housing through the junction points that connect said outer-housing to the overall craft. think on that before sending a response. the design, in general, is a bit flawed. However, it is still possible if the previously stated problem can be addressed properly without changing the overall structure of the craft.
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Hmm. apologies, you said to "consider what (you) said before responding" but I tend to jump on things quickly. I just dummied up what I believe you are trying to say with a picture. [link] (ignoring scale and fit, I believe this is what you are saying) Pictures work sooo much better than words...
I tend to think you are making a potential Rube Goldberg scenario, but lets roll with it.

I tend to think you still have to have some framework to stabilize it and keep it in place, but the chain concept is, at best, a little "iffy". True, a chain was used for the Harrier to change the direction of it's jetwash, but chains have a nasty habit of "jumping" at high speed, or at the very least allow for a weakness by having too many moving parts ("A chain is only as strong as its weakest link").
Especially if you have that chain twisting and binding to change direction.

You probably meant this only by example though, as planetary gears would be more stable, and with a universal link, allow for any twisting action. However, you still have to have a framework to keep it in place at some part and a single connection to support and change direction is again, weak. Gyroscopic action would tend to keep it spinning in one plane, thus to change that plane would require a large amount of torque.
I, one time, had a bicycle wheel off it's frame and on a lark, turned on my dad's bench grinder and lightly set the tire to touch the spinning grinder. The tire started to spin rapidly and I had to hold it extremely strongly. However, once spinning, I could let go with one hand and it would continue spinning while held by the other.
I was young.
My point is, to change direction required LOTS of strength AND both hands, otherwise gyroscopic action would tend to want to keep it spinning in the same plane. Likewise, I feel you can't have just one connection point to support this.

...or am I going in the wrong direction?
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:iconsomeguynobodyknows:
someguynobodyknows Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
Very intriguing. If you haven't yet, try looking up the P-38 Lightning for inspiration. A very cool WWII plane with a relatively similar design.
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
Thanks! Yeah, the twin tail designs where definitely part of the inspiration.
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:iconmrjumpmanv4:
MrJumpManV4 Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
this is a pretty insane concept, i especially love the joints for the props.
is that a recycled piece i see on the tail?
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
Thanks a lot. Insane and fragile indeed, but I like it. Will tweak the concept a bit, to make it more 'realistic'. And yup the tail is recycled from my WWtwoish helicopter....
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:iconmrjumpmanv4:
MrJumpManV4 Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Very nice, can't wait to see this finished man =D
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 27, 2012
Thanks!
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:iconpixel-pencil:
Pixel-pencil Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Student General Artist
Great concept! :D
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
THanks!
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:iconextraintelligence:
Extraintelligence Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Wow, that's really cool.
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
Thank you very much!
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:iconantonmoscowsky:
AntonMoscowsky Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Cool, last time I also was thinking about multy-copter war machine!

My opinion: it is not really need to give this screw so many degrees of freedom. Do you know about the Ar.drone parrot? it is a quadrocopter, ant it flyes well without changing planes of screws. Also i doubt about tail too, because direction of flight can be achived just by changibg speed of screws in special way.
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
Thank you very much! Helps a lot! Agree with the simpler versions of the rotors, as this seems pretty complex and fragile, and the tail is not really needed for sure. Kept it for the plane like feeling, but cropping it seems like a good idea. Gonna explore the concept some more, where i#ll keep your comments in my mind! Thanks!
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:iconantonmoscowsky:
AntonMoscowsky Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ypu are most welcome!
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:iconrob-cavanna:
Rob-Cavanna Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
Some very good points in this crit.
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:iconantonmoscowsky:
AntonMoscowsky Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I going to participate in flying robot competition, so I am styding this theme right now =)
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:iconrob-cavanna:
Rob-Cavanna Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012
I hope you share some pictures of your homemade drone when its finished!
BTW, I'm about to post some retouching I did for this concept, based on your crit....
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:iconantonmoscowsky:
AntonMoscowsky Featured By Owner Sep 24, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks, Rob. But I am a programmer, so my team just will modify ar.drone what we already have (by adding some kind of GPS and couple of ultralight sensors), but soft will be really mine, because drone should be absolutely authonomos.

It is good news, I will check it where it will be up to date ;)
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:iconmadcomm:
madcomm Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Addendum: Preview makes it look like the design is asymetrical. The outlines are barely seeable, it looks like the left is joined with the middle part.
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:iconflaketom:
flaketom Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012
Yeah, the render isn't the best. Textures coulda been chosen better, but it was all in a rush though I didn't update it...
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:iconbigviggenschtein:
Bigviggenschtein Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
So what if it was asymmetrical? IS THAT A CRIME?!?!?!
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:iconmadcomm:
madcomm Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Student Digital Artist
It's not a crime. It's an issue, where the audience cannot see what it really is.
Just constructive criticism. Please don't protect your favoured artists like that. Criticism helps to improve. By behaving like that, you make an artist feel like he doesn't have need/room for improvement, which ends up making him either become an ass, decrease in style, or just stop designing.

:|
>:|
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:iconbigviggenschtein:
Bigviggenschtein Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Improving helps to improve.

p.s. I don't even know this guy.
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:iconmadcomm:
madcomm Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Student Digital Artist
"Improving helps to improve"
:iconwhatisthisplz:
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:iconmadcomm:
madcomm Featured By Owner Sep 21, 2012  Student Digital Artist
Interesting, but unreliable. Design would be too expensive to produce, and too fragile. And inefficient.
Now, if it was smaller, with 8 direction possibility.....That'd be a mean piece of work.
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Technically speaking, this 6 prop seems to be using counter-rotating duoprops, meaning this is actually a 12 prop not a 6 prop.
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:iconmadcomm:
madcomm Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Student Digital Artist
After second look, I agree. But my point still does not change.
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 25, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
so... you think 8 props are better than 12?
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:iconmadcomm:
madcomm Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2012  Student Digital Artist
8 Directions. In this setting, it is lowly manoevrable.
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:iconmann-of-lamancha:
Mann-of-LaMancha Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
:confused:
up
forward
backward
left
right
I count 5 directions. 6 if you want to include down but gravity usually tends to that.

However, I didn't say anything about maneuverability in my comment to you??? Do you have self-esteem issues or do you normally defend your point when no one else is discussing it?
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:iconmadcomm:
madcomm Featured By Owner Sep 26, 2012  Student Digital Artist
|
\/
--
/\
|

8 directions.
I stated that my point was still correct. I am not sure if you are trying to troll, or start an argument. Eitherway, I am not interested.
Have a nice day.
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